Mansfield Station Train Register Book - Fish Trains

FISH TRAINS

 

During this period of the TRB (1950/51) there were 4 fish trains which needed to get onto the GC Main Line and pass Kirkby South Junction, heading South. However one train (1272) didn't pass through Mansfield and will be described after the 3 which did go through Mansfield. Using this TRB and Working Timetables (WTTs) I'll set out information about those trains. Although the WTT dates will not all match the TRB they will be suitable for what I am presenting.

Two trains departed from the Grimsby area and two from Hull. In the WTTs the destination, at that time, was stated as Banbury, being the point where the Western Region took over. However, the ultimate destination would be further on. In fact a lot of fish trains went into Marston Sidings, near Swindon. There the trains were re-marshalled as required to be sent forward. I'll deal first of all with the first train from Hull, the 12.50pm departure.

 

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TRAIN 601 - 12:50pm Hull to Banbury: This train went via Goole (stopping to detach) to Doncaster Decoy Yard where a loco change took place. I've been told that quite often the fresh loco used was one which was just out of Doncaster Works, for running in. The train was known at Mansfield as the "Four o'clock fish" and was a favourite with local schoolboys who would rush from their schools to various vantage points. Bill Taylor told me " Some Doncaster built Standards put in appearances on it and I saw 76104 and 73101 brand new. B17s were seen including 61635 "Milton" and 61638 "Melton Hall. The mainstay in the 1950s were B1s, notably 61127". From Doncaster the train used the East Coast Main Line to Tuxford North where it took the curve to gain access onto the ex LDEC Rly at Tuxford West and on towards Clipstone. It then travelled along the former Mansfield Railway to join the GC Main Line at Kirkby South Junction. The train was not booked to stop at Mansfield although it did, at times, to take water.

 

Some of the WTT entries can be seen here, highlighted by a blue box:

1) Hull Goods to Doncaster (WTT Section S) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066687421/in/album-...

2) Hull Outward Yard to Doncaster Decoy Yard (WTT Section G) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066703318/in/album-...

3) Doncaster Decoy to Tuxford North (WTT Section A) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066925154/in/album-...

4) Tuxford North to Kirkby South Junction (WTT Section H) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066689466/in/album-...

5) Kirkby South Junction to Nottingham Victoria (WTT Section F) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066924739/in/album-...

 

More information on this train can be found in the comprehensive flickr album I've built up here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719020563195

 

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TRAIN 1276 - 6.25pm Grimsby to Banbury: This train went via Lincoln Pyewipe Junction. It took water at Pyewipe West then travelled onto the ex LDEC Rly and followed the same route as Train 601 from Tuxford West.

The train was booked to stop at Mansfield where a van was detached and an engine change took place. The fresh engine had travelled light to Mansfield from Annesley shed. The replaced engine then went back to Concentration Sidings.

 

Some of the WTT entries can be seen here, highlighted by a blue box:

1) Grimsby Docks to Lincoln Pelham Street (WTT Section H) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52067178110/in/album-...

2) Lincoln Holmes to Kirkby South Junction (WTT Section H) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066704848/in/album-...

3) Kirkby South Junction to Nottingham Victoria (WTT Section F) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066924654/in/album-...

 

At some point I'm planning to populate a flickr album with more information on this train. That album will be here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719072968350

 

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TRAIN 587 - 6.45pm Hull to Banbury: Like Train 601 the route was via Goole (without a stop) to Doncaster for an engine change. It was booked to stop at Mansfield and generally the comments in the TRB show that a van was detached and the engine quite often took water.

 

Some of the WTT entries can be seen here, highlighted by a blue box:

1) Hull Goods to Doncaster (WTT Section S) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066687346/in/album-...

2) Hull Outward Yard to Doncaster Decoy Yard (Section G) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066687666/in/album-...

3) Doncaster Decoy to Tuxford North www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066925059/in/album-...

4) Tuxford North to Kirkby South Junction www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066704848/in/album-...

5) Kirkby South Junction to Nottingham Victoria www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52065647017/in/album-...

 

At some point I'm planning to populate a flickr album with more information on this train. That album will be here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719017668313

 

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For the above 3 trains they are shown on some of the Mansfield Station TRB pages I've included here:

1) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066689016/in/album-...

2) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066704358/in/album-...

3) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066924174/in/album-...

4) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52065646577/in/album-...

5) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52065646447/in/album-...

6) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52065646357/in/album-...

7) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52065646217/in/album-...

8) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066703508/in/album-...

9) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066687906/in/album-...

 

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During the period of the TRB (1950/51), as mentioned at the beginning of this chapter, there was another fish train which passed Kirkby South Junction but it didn't go through Mansfield:

 

TRAIN 1272 - 1.4pm New Clee to Banbury: This train went through Retford and Worksop before taking the curve at Waleswood to join the GC Main Line at Killamarsh Junction. Until recently I had not been able to find out why the train went that way. However, a purchase of a Section G Doncaster District WTT, unexpectedly gave me the answer (My reason for buying the WTT was for the 601 and 587 Train entries). It turns out that 1272 was booked for a 34 minutes stop at Gainsborough Central for water and to detach!!

 

Some of the WTT entries can be seen here, highlighted by a blue box:

1) Barnetby to Waleswood Junction (WTT Section G) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066923059/in/album-...

2) Waleswood Junction to Nottingham Victoria (WTT Section F) www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066924739/in/album-...

 

There's a 1956 Frank Ashley photo of the train passing Kirkby South Junction here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52068721279/in/album-...

 

More information on this train can be found in the comprehensive flickr album I've built up here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719030474452

 

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I didn't witness the fish trains described above. However, I've shown the situation which, as far as I can ascertain, was in place during most of the 1950s. During 1959 there were some significant changes which, later on in 1962/63, I was able to see some first hand. In these flickr Albums I'm not planning to include the relevant WTTs etc information for those changes as they are (or will be) part of my individual fish train flickr albums mentioned and linked to above. I will, though, just set out below some of the headline changes:

 

* In 1959 Train 601 became 3V05 3.30pm Hull to Plymouth. During 1962 I saw the train many times at Kirkby-in-Ashfield, hauled by an EE Type 3 diesel (later Class 37). The diesel was replaced at Leicester by steam and was unusual in that it didn't travel via Banbury. It continued on the GC main line to Calvert where it was propelled to Claydon LNE Junction where a Hall class loco took the train to Oxford and beyond. Although I've not found evidence of why the train went this way I believe it was a working which ensured that Woodford Halse crews maintained their route knowledge, in case of diversion requirements. A Syd Hancock photo taken near Mansfield is here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52074641669/in/album-...

* By 1960 Train 587 departed at an earlier time of 6.5pm and travelled to Mansfield Concentration Sidings where it combined with 4156 (which used to be 1276).

* By 1960 Train 1276 had changed to be 4156 and, instead of going through to Banbury, it was combined into Train 587 at Mansfield Concentration Sidings.

* Train 587 later became 3V07 then, when Banbury became London Midland Region, it changed to 3M02.

* Train 4156 became 3G45 and a 1964 photo of it is here www.railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/view/581950/PL

 

Going back to the combined trains at Concentration Sidings the train from Hull (3V07 then 3M02). For a while vans were dropped off at Con Sidings for Mansfield and were taken there by the engine from the New Clee train. The engine then returned to Con sidings. Bill Taylor recalls "the 9 o'clock fish passing by Forest Town with a full load and then a K3 passing about 9.20 with a handful of vans and its engine returning going in the opposite direction as LE soon after. The first train sometimes had a K3 but often a B1. The later one always a K3".

 

So the above deals with the 3 trains which I've described as going through Mansfield in the 1950/51 Mansfield box TRB. However, the biggest changes, for me, were the ones which affected Train 1272, the 1.4pm New Clee - Banbury. By 1959 that train was travelling through Mansfield so, clearly, the requirement to drop vans at Gainsborough was no longer there. It was now known as Train 4104, leaving Grimsby at 4.30pm. In a 1960 WTT the destination is shown as Whitland and, certainly by 1961, the Reporting number had changed to 3V11. From Dec 1960 to Sep 1961 Immingham shed began receiving "Britannia" Pacifics onto its allocation which, from about the Spring of 1962, became the mainstay haulage for 3V11 the 4.30pm Grimsby to Whitland fish train. I saw the train many times at Kirkby-in-Ashfield. There's a Jack Cupit photo of 70037 "Hereward the Wake" passing Forest Town near Mansfield here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52068974030/in/album-... and one of 70035 "Rudyard Kipling" passing Bleak Hills, Mansfield here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52074674699/in/album-...

There's also a Richard Piccaver print of 70037 passing Kirkby South Junction www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52068973610/in/album-...

The Immingham Depot Engine and Trainmen's Working for Sep 1963 which shows the diagram for 3V11 (and the returning empties to obviously get the Brit back to Immingham!!) is here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/52066744036/in/album-...

 

I've produced a Storyboard flickr Album which features 3V11 with heavy focus on when it was "Britannia" hauled. It can be seen here www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/51826235349/in/album-...

 

By Dec 1963 all the 7 Immingham Brits had been transferred away and 3V11 then became diesel hauled to Annesley yard where steam took the train on towards Woodford Halse. The train also reverted back to the original route taken by its predecessor 1272, via Retford, Worksop and the Waleswood curve to reach Killamarsh Junction. So, in a way, things have gone full circle because, at this moment in time, I do not know why that route change took place. Maybe it was because the drivers who were rostered for the diesel working did not have route knowledge via Mansfield? Or was there another reason? Does anyone know?

 

By now the run down of the GC Main Line was underway and, coupled with changing circumstances for the transportation of fish by rail, the writing was on the wall and all fish traffic on the ex GCR London Extension was withdrawn by the beginning of February 1965.

 

Finally, I would like to make it clear that I've only described SX trains above. Throughout the period there were some SO trains which sometimes had different destinations, timings, drop off points etc.

 

 

Done