Page 29 (final page) - BR WR Bristol Passr_12 Sep 1960 to 11 June 1961_pB66
On the previous page B15 we see 3V11 described as "...Fish and Milk Empties" (rather than Milk & Fish on this page) - I don't know if the first mentioned item was deemed to be more important or if the differences were just down to the preferences of the individual WTT compilers.
After Wootton Bassett the train passes Severn Tunnel Junction at 2.25am and then arrives Newport at 2.47am, dep 3.11am. It arrives Cardiff General at 3.33am. An inset note says "On Mondays starts from Swindon at 1.15am, Newport depart 3.00am, Cardiff arrive 3.22 am". That is understandable as there were no fish trains running the previous day (Sunday).
I haven't yet been able to find a WTT which contains 3V11 for the remainder of the route from Cardiff to Whitland. If anyone can help me with that I'd be most pleased!
TEMPORARY UPDATE !!! I've now been supplied with times from the WTT for the Cardiff to Whitland part of the journey. In due course I will be adding the data into my tables. Also I plan to publish a composite Timing and Mileage chart for the full journey from Grimsby to Whitland - watch this space!!
Meantime, the timings kindly supplied to me by Keith Morris are shown below. These are from the BR(WR) Wales Division Section F WTT 17th June to 8th September 1963:
16:30 Grimsby Fish and milk empties (MX)
Cardiff General 03:33 to 04:30
Bridgend West 05:05 to 05:17
Port Talbot General 05:40 to 05:48
Neath 06:05 to 06:17
Landore 06:32 to 06:47
Swansea Loop West pass 06:50
Cockett pass 06:55
Gowerton North pass 07:00
Llanelly 07:13 to 07:33
Carmarthen Junction 08:00 to 08:15 (uses Carmarthen avoiding line)
Whitland arrive 08:40
I conclude with some extracts from my research:
- From the data I have used, the journey length from Grimsby Fish Docks to Whitland was 352.5 miles.
- The train left Grimsby Fish Docks at 4.30pm and arrived Whitland at 8.40am the next day, a journey time of 16 hours 10 minutes.
- The average speed, including stops, was 21.8 mph.
- The Brits took the train from Grimsby to Banbury, a journey length of some 159 miles. The loco then departed Banbury at 22.45 as light engine to Woodford and then returned to Grimsby hauling the 01.20 4E00 fish empties, stopping at Annesley South Junction at 3.19am to 3.21am for the Woodford enginemen to be relieved by Lincoln men. The empties arrived at Grimsby Docks at 07.30. (I would say deliberately done to ensure that the Brit returns to Immingham and was not poached for some additional journeys !)
- A re-occuring question which crops up in the railway social media is why send fish all the way to South Wales when there was already a fishing industry there. The answer is, of course, that the fish from Grimsby came from the cold Northern waters and wasn’t available to the fishermen further south.
- Another question is why Whitland as the destination? I might have stumbled across the answer to that during my Working Timetable (WTT) research, previously mentioned. The BR WR Bristol District WTT 1960/61 describes the train from Swindon as being “4.30 pm SX Grimsby to Whitland Fish and Milk Empties”. More research shows that, at Whitland, a Creamery was established in 1914 and it grew to become the largest manufacturing Creamery in Britain.
Hopefully, you will have found this storyboard interesting and informative. I have produced other flickr albums which give a lot more detail on the fish trains which passed Kirkby South Junction. I've still got more work to do on two of them, when circumstances/priorities allow!
The two albums which have a lot of information are here:
www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719020563195
www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719030474452
and the two needing additional work are here:
www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719017668313
www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719072968350
Finally, there's a great November 2021 aerial video of Clipstone Junctions posted on YouTube here www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ1afiMKA2w
So sit back and just use your imagination to see a Britannia at the head of 3V11!
Thanks for viewing,
Malcolm
Page 29 (final page) - BR WR Bristol Passr_12 Sep 1960 to 11 June 1961_pB66
On the previous page B15 we see 3V11 described as "...Fish and Milk Empties" (rather than Milk & Fish on this page) - I don't know if the first mentioned item was deemed to be more important or if the differences were just down to the preferences of the individual WTT compilers.
After Wootton Bassett the train passes Severn Tunnel Junction at 2.25am and then arrives Newport at 2.47am, dep 3.11am. It arrives Cardiff General at 3.33am. An inset note says "On Mondays starts from Swindon at 1.15am, Newport depart 3.00am, Cardiff arrive 3.22 am". That is understandable as there were no fish trains running the previous day (Sunday).
I haven't yet been able to find a WTT which contains 3V11 for the remainder of the route from Cardiff to Whitland. If anyone can help me with that I'd be most pleased!
TEMPORARY UPDATE !!! I've now been supplied with times from the WTT for the Cardiff to Whitland part of the journey. In due course I will be adding the data into my tables. Also I plan to publish a composite Timing and Mileage chart for the full journey from Grimsby to Whitland - watch this space!!
Meantime, the timings kindly supplied to me by Keith Morris are shown below. These are from the BR(WR) Wales Division Section F WTT 17th June to 8th September 1963:
16:30 Grimsby Fish and milk empties (MX)
Cardiff General 03:33 to 04:30
Bridgend West 05:05 to 05:17
Port Talbot General 05:40 to 05:48
Neath 06:05 to 06:17
Landore 06:32 to 06:47
Swansea Loop West pass 06:50
Cockett pass 06:55
Gowerton North pass 07:00
Llanelly 07:13 to 07:33
Carmarthen Junction 08:00 to 08:15 (uses Carmarthen avoiding line)
Whitland arrive 08:40
I conclude with some extracts from my research:
- From the data I have used, the journey length from Grimsby Fish Docks to Whitland was 352.5 miles.
- The train left Grimsby Fish Docks at 4.30pm and arrived Whitland at 8.40am the next day, a journey time of 16 hours 10 minutes.
- The average speed, including stops, was 21.8 mph.
- The Brits took the train from Grimsby to Banbury, a journey length of some 159 miles. The loco then departed Banbury at 22.45 as light engine to Woodford and then returned to Grimsby hauling the 01.20 4E00 fish empties, stopping at Annesley South Junction at 3.19am to 3.21am for the Woodford enginemen to be relieved by Lincoln men. The empties arrived at Grimsby Docks at 07.30. (I would say deliberately done to ensure that the Brit returns to Immingham and was not poached for some additional journeys !)
- A re-occuring question which crops up in the railway social media is why send fish all the way to South Wales when there was already a fishing industry there. The answer is, of course, that the fish from Grimsby came from the cold Northern waters and wasn’t available to the fishermen further south.
- Another question is why Whitland as the destination? I might have stumbled across the answer to that during my Working Timetable (WTT) research, previously mentioned. The BR WR Bristol District WTT 1960/61 describes the train from Swindon as being “4.30 pm SX Grimsby to Whitland Fish and Milk Empties”. More research shows that, at Whitland, a Creamery was established in 1914 and it grew to become the largest manufacturing Creamery in Britain.
Hopefully, you will have found this storyboard interesting and informative. I have produced other flickr albums which give a lot more detail on the fish trains which passed Kirkby South Junction. I've still got more work to do on two of them, when circumstances/priorities allow!
The two albums which have a lot of information are here:
www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719020563195
www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719030474452
and the two needing additional work are here:
www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719017668313
www.flickr.com/photos/192151030@N08/albums/72157719072968350
Finally, there's a great November 2021 aerial video of Clipstone Junctions posted on YouTube here www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ1afiMKA2w
So sit back and just use your imagination to see a Britannia at the head of 3V11!
Thanks for viewing,
Malcolm